Close Combat in 3D
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#41: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:26 pm
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Yes RTW and BI are amazing one of my favorite games. It needs more strategic stuff like supplies, morale, weather affecting weapons etc. Some mods take care of that using traits on the generals which is great and adds to the immersion, for example I really like the trait that counts number of troops killed and the trait that counts how much time you've spent in enemy territory I think they are on the extended cultures and europa barbarorum.

What I think can be translated to CC is the 3D strategic map where the actions takes place by turns and how the battle map generated corresponds with the geographical area in the strategic map, never knew how they did it, is it a lot of small maps interconnected? are they automatically generated based on some settings on the files?.

For a taste of what can be done in 3D check out Achtüng Panzer, I gather is not really liked here but it is the best example of how a CC in 3D would look like, even the creators are known CC fans. Such an amazing game really a shame most of you didn't give it a chance.


Achtüng Panzer: Kharkov 1943

Achtüng Panzer: Operation Star
#42: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:01 pm
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Hi Kanov,

Nice points on the strategic map. I have attached the region map for RTW. This map has several corresponding "twins" that describe height, terrain, climate, and other relavent data to the 3d engine for RTW.

Each pixel on this map corresponds to one square (I think) on the strategic map in the RTW game. That square is in turn contained in the map.rwm file, which includes the 3d terrain information you see when you play the tactical game. For instance if you make changes to vegitation, trees, etc, you must delete the map.rwm file, and when you restart the game, an new one is generated.

Anyway, the region map can also be used to derive the map coordiantes for custom battle locations when during Single Player mode. The black pixels indicate the location of the settlements in each region, and the white ones show the location for the ports.

The pixel coordiantes from the region image itself can be used used in the custom_locations.txt file if you want to.

For instance the map in Gimp is 255 (x axis) by 156 (y axis) pixels.

To find a coordinate for a settlement for custom locations take the exact x axis coordinate and use 156 - (y + 1) for the final y coordinate. (Use the black pixels on the map). Also note, that a settlement will not appear in a custom battle unless you ask for it. The settlement locations are generally nice locations for battles.

I believe the other maps of the same dimensions can be used in a similar way.

Here is a sample entry that I use in the custom locations file.  Arrow

; custom locations, add new locations at the bottom
; custom locations, by region(s), compatible with Rome Total War

custom_location Aegyptus ()
{
       location 183 13              
       image                   locations/rome_tw_map.tga
       sett_locked             no
}

custom_location Middle Egypt
{
;       location settlement     183 13            
;       location port 194 9            
       location 183 13              
       image                   locations/rome_tw_map.tga
       sett_locked             no
}

custom_location Nile Delta
{
;       location settlement     178 19            
;       location port 176 19            
       location 178 19              
       image                   locations/rome_tw_map.tga
       sett_locked             no

...
#43: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:44 pm
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here is a video of the next wasteland 2. This game is using the unity engine.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151165199101220

The end of the video shows different camera angle possible included a top down view (1:00)
#44: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:46 am
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Thanks Manoi,

That video looked really cool. Maybe we should be playing Wasteland 2.

Slitherene won't come even close to my vision. They are smarter than that.  Laughing

And, I have also noted the poll results, and in some ways, I have to agree with the poll.  Idea

I am really sorry to say, that as much as I would like to see a cool 3D game, I am very content with CCMT as it stands. In fact, I could say that if any CC game insists upon or enforces fixed Victory Locations on any map, then I probably won't enjoy it.

Despite their efforts, I just wouldn't pick up any of the re-releases. I am really stuck on CC4 maps right now, and Yuma's modifications of same. It is a total blast playing CLOSE Combat on these smaller maps.
#45: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: dj,  PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:31 pm
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Not feeling it...I hate how primitive and childish the scale looks on 3D games.  Whereas 2D top down is about as accurate as any game can get.  Maybe quasi-3D with keeping the roots of 2D top-down to be able to handle large numbers of units.  Otherwise the scale and realism look horrible in 3D.

@Stwa - yes keep CC "CLOSE" and the map scale smaller for true realism of house-to-house close quarters combat
#46: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:39 pm
    —
Map scale has done nothing but increase over the years.
Weather it be through Mods or the re-releases.
And nothing has ever been done to increase the amount of Units

In some cases its just becoming absurd.
#47: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:46 pm
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Agreed  Exclamation

But perhaps PITF will solve some of that. I wonder if anyone, perhaps like yourself, has thought ahead to the possibilities of converting stuff to PITF.

Since PITF is to be the last 2d game. The purgatory phase will come to an end. The last time this happened was after CC5.

As for moi, I will continue on with what I have for a while longer. My elements file has been tweeked to my liking, and among other mods I have made for myself, I am not nearly ready to give them up.

But I do hope the community will find a way to maximize PITF in all respects, if it is possible to do so.

Me thinks DJ has a point, and I find even simple maps combined with the CCMT battle editor, can yield many small battles that are the true essence of Close Combat.
#48: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: JohnW,  PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:55 pm
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One of the features I like about the current CC series is that it can be played on almost any computer.  I can put it on my laptop for trips.  The game is very familiar to me and easy to jump in and play.

I've always liked the appeal of a 3D version.  Probably like many here, I began with Squad Leader, progressed to Steel Panthers, and then Close Combat.  I keep trying the 3D games like GI Combat, Squad Assault, Theatre of War, and Combat Mission.  Combat Mission Fortress Italy is the current game under investigation.  Currently, TOW2 and TOW3 seem like the closest to a 3D version of CC.  TOW3 also has the campaign map.  These games are MOD-able.  Maps are the easiest to modify.  Objects require 3D software and a knowledge of model building.  Unless you have a good group effort, MOD's take time.  Combat Mission appears to offer similar options for MOD-ing.  I like the variety of vehicles and equipment offered with CMFI.

An important feature of 3D games appears to be the added processor and graphics requirements for all of the objects and rendering, ie:  lots of computer power.  There always seems to be limitations depending on your hardware.
#49: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Mana,  PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:16 pm
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Hello, I stumbled uppon this thread and it catched my attention because I have played close combat for years.

Maybe this sounds rough but I think the Panthers in the fog release is a small step towards a new close combat version.
It will take a bold step to do a succesfull close combat version which will shed new light in the series.

Currently I'm experimenting with 3D graphics to create a representation of how the new series should look like. In my beleive it should breath the same atmosphere as the current series but introducing more detail, both in graphics and context. If you are interested i'd love to share some of my experiments.



Games that inspire me allot are:

Wargame European Escalation

Red Orchestra 2
#50: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:43 pm
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One of the features I like about the current CC series is that it can be played on almost any computer. -JohnW

A most excellent point, and one that seems to gets brushed under the carpet alot, since most of the lifers around here probably have beeg time computers.

I rely on this "feature" myself, as I have a "lower end" system, even though it plays many great 3D games flawlessly. I like the fact that my CC game tanks move nicely across a 1360x768 32" LCD widescreen during the tactical battles. It makes for a great gaming experience IMHO.
#51: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Mana,  PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:18 pm
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Hi, here's a basic terrain render. I'm still in the process of creating terrain details such as trees and other.

cc_render.jpeg
 Description:
 Filesize:  174.19 KB
 Viewed:  509 Time(s)

cc_render.jpeg
#52: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: MF_Church,  PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:40 pm
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Up to 8 !  players  ~  ~  ~    oy !

Wargame European Escalation.

$39.00
#53: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Schmal_Turm,  PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:33 pm
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I read with interest on the ideas for CC3D and checked out the two games. The Wargame™ European Escalation game intrigued me as a game I could get into for a period of war that is very seldom dealt with. I spend 4-5 hours at work four nights a week as a security guard playing CC and this game is another avenue I would have. Thanks for the info. By the way, the graphics on a game like that would work for me for a future CC.

I love reading all the ideas this community has, even many of the old ones. I am an old CC gamer way back when CC3 first came out and have added over the years all of the new additions. I am glad to see that there is a community to keep it going and the many mods that certain of your members create to help to make sure I don't run out of scenarios. Many thanks guys and keep it coming.
#54: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:01 pm
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@Mana, it looks quite good! I personally would not want CC 3D to lose the 2D view's situational awareness. So such a design as yours sound logical. Keep sharing your ideas : )
#55: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Mana,  PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:29 pm
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I have to agree to both of you Smile The best part about close combat is probably it's community because it keeps the game allive. It probably does not matter if the game is in 3D or 2D.

But I hope to introduce some new graphics with the new 32-bit system in Panthers in the fog.

Nearly all kind of operations and scenarios have passed the modding subject, what should the next title be for a panthers in the fog mod?


thanks in advance!
#56: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: MF_Church,  PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:03 pm
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O.K.   again with Europe Escalation ............................   :)

Utube ...  simple, and highlighting things for the beginner.. like pathfinding etc.   quite cool !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nf2OcCpeaI

enjoy!

Game did go on sale for half price!  20$

Have to wait for that.. again Very Happy
#57: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:33 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

But perhaps PITF will solve some of that.


No. At least not if Matrix/Slitherine has their way.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3228385

Unbelievable.
#58: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:58 pm
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Hi Kweniston,

Thanks for the heads up on this. I agree, Matrix is UNBELIEVABLE.

Since most of you guys did not get CCMT and because most of you are unfamiliar with my story. I would like to point out the following:

CCMT, had a similar situation going, kinda like PitF, regarding team size and available teams and map size.

The CCMT maps were huge (~1KM x ~1Km), the largest team size is 8 soldiers, but most of the ARMY teams were 5 soldiers or less. And of course there were only 15 teams available for each side.

It was my finding, early on, that this created a game that just was not fun most of the time. Most games you had to spend a lot of time just searching around for the enemies. The AI has a hard time defending multiple VL's on maps this size.

So, for me, to make the game more fun, I cut down the maps substantially to 600M x 600M (3K pixels square). In the end this created another advantage, because at this map size, mounting vehicles became kinda pointless. I found this a feature since the AI never mounted vehicles anyway.
#59: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Lt_2nd,  PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:38 pm
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Good suggestions on the graphics and the other suggestions mentioned above. Also, If the developers continue to incorporate the strategic map component they need to make some improvements to the movement capability of BGS. All BGs are only capable of moving 1 map per turn so currently there is no advantage in the strategic phase of a full  recon/motorized/armoured BG over that of an infantry BG. Unrealistic and ironic given that  three of the last CC releases  (PiTF,  WaR, LSA) are based on operations which the success of the attacking force depended partly/entirely on an armoured component to breakthrough and achieve its ojectives quickly.   Motorized/Armoured groups should have increased mobility in the strategic phase over infantry BGs. Also, maybe units should be able to move quicker through friendly controlled maps vs unfriendly uncontrolled maps.
#60: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: WilliamTheSilent,  PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:22 pm
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The most annoying thing in CC for me is when you order a vehicle somewhere and it starts to do onrealistic things, like turning it's back to the enemy (AT guns), moving towards an odd direction. going in circles, etc. Can that not been fixed?

For the rest. CC has to stay 2D. It will give all kinds of new problems that are related to graphics and not gameplay.
If you play CC you want to play realistic WW2 battle, not some graphic stunning game expierence.

I still love to play napoleonic games in 2D. Rather then the TW version with battalions of 50 men with a max of 20 units. That's NOT REALISTIC.
Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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