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#21: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:47 am
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Thanks Exclamation

I dumbed them down for guys like you. Wink

#22: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:59 am
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I would also like to mention modding with the 3d engine.

People are going to want to mod the 3d game, and usually that means skins at the very least.

CA has a great way of handling that, where you can unpack their graphics, but you cant re-pack them. I think that is a good idea.

What they let you do, is put your modified skin in a new location and then you can change an entry in a text file that indicates to the system that your skin is in a different folder.

I am not sure if CC does this now, because I have always been under the impression most graphics in CC has to be repacked using a variety of packing tools based on what graphic you are modifying.

The way CA does it, if you don't like your modified skin, you can simply change the text entry back to use the skin from CA. This method is good for testing as well.

Anyway, I think CC 3d would be well served with this type of method.

#23: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:40 am
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Stwa,

Quote:

So what your are saying is that the absense of multiplayer ruined it for many people.
I am not saying you are wrong, but if there is not enough for a single player to do with the game, I can easily see how your comments would be dead on.

actually I meant it didn't work well for me due to the lack of H2H GC - had to return to CC5.
Same problem for me with CM Normandy - better game than CC overall but the lack of H2H GC forcces me still playing CC.

#24: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:41 am
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Again, allowing modders the ability to (at the very least) reskin models can increase the longevity of any game, and or correct any graphic in the released game that might not seem quite right to the community.

This was important when RTW was released and most of the community just did not agree with the Egyptian Faction as presented.

Anyway, modders were able to assign Seleucid models to Egypt and re-skin them to give the faction a more Ptolemaic look.

I was able to get a credible Egyptian faction simply by using existing game 3d models and modified textures. The whole mod just took just a few hours to implement.

#25: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:56 am
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actually I meant it didn't work well for me due to the lack of H2H GC - had to return to CC5. Same problem for me with CM Normandy - better game than CC overall but the lack of H2H GC forcces me still playing CC. -Dima

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Apart from my own preferences regarding Single Player mode, I have always been aware that most CC gamers nowdays do enjoy the campaign game, and there are many lifers around here that have actually completed one.

And I would agree, it would be a mistake for any game to not furnish a H2H campaign game, when they have one for single player.

#26: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:22 am
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If Slitherene does decide to just go with a squad base game. The good news will be that even with a 3d engine, even older systems will probably be able to handle the games, and in fact performance may actually be improved over the 2d versions.

As I have mentioned several times so far, my box is not exactly on the cutting edge, so if it can do RTW, I am guessing it can do CC 3d.

I believe mooxe started another thread commenting on fog effects for PITF, which of course is a 2d game. But weather effects will be perfect for 3d if you are able to pan down and observe their effect.

#27: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:46 am
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Here are my key points so far. I don't really expect most of this stuff to happen, but I sure wish it would.

+Close combat needs to move away from squad level, and goose up the number of participants in a battle. (platoon or company size units)

+Perhaps each 100 man unit being a company or so. With 20 unit slots, maybe this could be 2 battalions (battalion or brigade sized battles)

+I really hope by the time the 3d game comes out, someone has decided to bring the UI into the present. (widescreen support for in-game and menus)

+With a wide screen prespective, you could direct and observe a tank battle in the valley, just as easily. (large battefields that assume widescreen monitors)

+I have the gold version of that game also. It cost 20 bucks as well. (reasonable prices, unlike alot of Matrix games so far)

+They (Slitherene), left us with the impression the 3d game would be out about a year after Panters in the Fog. (spend 2 years in development)

+What about the campaign map. Is it possible for Slitherene to use a 3d campaign map. (3d strat map with its own 3d models)

+Note the inferior AI (English), mounted a heavy duty charge straight at moi (Normans). (an AI that can defend and attack)

+I was back to the original environment provided by RTW. This allows me to have thousands of soldiers on the battlefield. (avoid FPS killing vegitation and geography)

+Perhaps Slitherene could approach CA, about using their 3d engine. (remember dating, the worse that can happen is they will say NO)

+And then if there is going to be scoring and ladders and stuff, if there are not just jillions of players, everyone will know how badly you suck at the game. (don't alienate users by design and provide a game where anyone can succeed)

+Then it might be possible that wannabe 3d modellers will start cranking out lots of cool stuff and uploading to sites like this one. (allow 3rd party models and textures an easy pathway into the game)

+If there is a map generator provided with the game, its a rumor me thinks. (Provide a map generator, but better yet a custom BATTLE generator ala RTW)

+And I would agree, it would be a mistake for any game to not furnish a H2H campaign game, when they have one for single player. (not really, so don't supply a multiplayer campaign game that even the lifers can't finish)

#28: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:18 pm
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Hi,

cool that you come here along to see what the fans are waiting.
Why do you say "eventual" 3D close combat? I believed your team was already busy to work on the next gen close combat with the unitiy engine? What I want for the next gen is that the game keep the same readability of the battle and the facility to play as the previous versions but with all the improvements that the 3D allows. I have heard that the stratmap dissapears but I hope that the strategic part introduced in close combat 5 will remain. I hope too that you will make the game moddable with the release of tools (map tools by sample with the possibility to import our own models).
Thanks to keep the cc series alive!

ScottP wrote (View Post):

Hi all! I'm Scott Parrino, the Public Relations Manager for Slitherine/Matrix Games. Great to see an active community for Close Combat! This is a series that has a special place in my heart ever since downloading the Bridge Too Far demo on my 14.4 modem, waiting hours to download that 200mb MONSTER of a file!

I'm sure you all know that PITF will be the last 2D CC that will be coming out. No fear that it will be short-changed though, it's getting a bit of polish done to it, with new 32-bit graphics, troops and weapons that can mount to vehicles during the tactical battles, and of course the much-wanted integrated multiplayer lobby. I am sure it'll bring some new life into the series and keep everyone more than happy while we work on the eventual 3D Close Combat.

What sort of features and implementations are you guys interested in seeing for the 3D version? I'm sure everyone will be happy to be able get a better view on the LOS and LOF issues for their troops, that's one thing I remember trying to get a grasp of when I first started playing.

#29: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:37 am
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I'd like to see the exact same game but in 3D Including but not limited to..........

Strategic Map
Great Graphics
Great Animation
Soldiers can mount Vehicles
AT_Guns can be towed
Built in Lobby to play online but not limited to that
A 2 on 2 online option
A GC like what MMCCIII has to offer
Weather effects including Snow and the animation of falling Snow
A camera angle of my own choosing
Vehicles that have sounds and leave Track marks on the ground,No More hovering Vehicles please
A sound file that includes soldiers whispering if there is a Night Battle option
A fully editable game,NO HARD CODDED files or colors,let me be able to change the layout of the game.
Back ground graphics that are dependent upon what side you play as.A simple example being Grey background for playing as Axis,Olive Drab for Axis Pictures would be better but not necessary
Or if your really nice allow the back ground music to do the same.

And yes a Map Making program needs to be included,but not one that's so complicated like say Co. of Hero's.

I'm also curious about what scale is going to be used,while I like Large pretty detailed graphics they hinder game play by limiting the amount of area that can be seen while playing thus leaving me to have to scroll way to much to be totally enjoyable.

Scale can also represent a problem for people like me who will probably want to edit the game but lacks the skill,time,"Software" to do so.
I'm going with the theory I will have to get graphics from other games to get the Tanks/Vehicles for any project I choose outside whatever theme the game ends up being.

And last but definitely not least "GREAT LONG LASTING CUSTOMER SUPPORT"
While you can't control the length of time a Co. stays in business at least make the game stable and fully editable.
As you have seen with those of us who are die hard about a game,you can always come back and do re-releases of a great game.
Cant say that about a crappy game.

#30: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:26 pm
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Good list Michael....

#31: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:30 pm
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Okaaay, moving right along.

I would like to make some additional points regarding modding.

If you followed the thread, I put up some pics of RTW mods for Viking Invasion and Norman Invasion. These are some of the more expert mods available for RTW. They were made by REAL modders, who know what they are doing, and they can mod just about any aspect of the game.

Considering the vast effort required to do mods of this nature, it is generally considered bad form to critisize them. But to that end, I would mention that in most games, I find the original graphics to be the best going, even in cases were modders employed higher resolution graphics.

Additionally as these game engines evlove, they start reaching graphics levels that would be hard to improve upon. Certainly just applying ever higher resolutions just doesn't register as a noticeable improvement.

In my own case, I generally always try to use existing models, and existing textures in a game mod. Third party 3d models are notorious FPS rippers as new modellers learn the skill, and textures sometimes 4 times the resolution of the original graphics do not always show that much detail.

Then in the case of NI and VI, sometimes the textures don't really match the underlying model. (i.e. part of a helmut painted as hair). It is OK at a distance, but up close in can be noticed.

So, with all this in mind, I could see a new pattern develop over time where game creators return to packing or locking away their 3d models and textures. From a business model, it is not such a bad idea, as the modder revolution does not always return direct (accountable sales) to the game developers.

#32: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:48 am
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Expanding upon the previous post, sometimes it is adventageous for both the game producers and fans that the games not be moddable in any way.

This way the games are kept light, consistent, and the game producers will provide additional content on a periodic basis, which in turn generates new interest.

I think this was perhaps the approach with Slitherene's Field of Glory series. Now I am not too knowledgeable about these games, but it seems you purchase a base game, and then you can purchase additional armies (factions), that require the base game.

The whole series seems to target tabletop wargamers from long ago. I did some of this myself in the 80's.

I am not sure if these games use the Unity 3d engine. Probably not, but it was a Roman era waragame so I got some screenies when I was at the site.

#33: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:05 am
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...or, maybe CC 3d will look more like Battlefield Academy. Panzer General, Battlefield Academy, and Field of Glory are Slitherenes best sellers.

I have no idea if Battlefield Academy uses the Unity 3d Engine. Question

But the game seems to emphaisize tactics, as the following video should demonstrate.

Link

#34: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 am
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But, like mooxe was trying to tell us (or did tell us). Mech Commander (or is it Warrior?) is a game that does use the Unity 3d engine.

Now I am not sure if Mech Warrior Online uses it, but if it does, perhaps we should be playing that game. Idea

FCC

#35: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:03 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Okaaay, moving right along.

It's hilarious how you portray your posts as being the only ones important to any topic your involved in.

Especially when you don't provide anything important or new to say.

#36: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:11 am
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Okaaay, moving right along. Idea

I have to admit, I heard a while back that CC 3d was going to use the Unity Engine, and I just haven't taken the time to check it out.

But, it definately looks promising. Here is a link if anyone else want to check out their site.

Unity 3D Engine

If CC terrains can look this good, we will be in business. But I bet my box won't display all that vegitation. Laughing

#37: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: mooxe,

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:47 pm
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The images in my post are from MechCommander. I do not think its a version of Unity3D, if it is its a very very old version.

#38: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:16 am
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more and more games are using the unity engine. I think it is a good bet!

#39: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:23 am
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The images in my post are from MechCommander. I do not think its a version of Unity3D, if it is its a very very old version. -mooxe

Unity is the development environment that gets out of your way, allowing you to focus on simply creating your game. Developing for web, mobile, or console? Unity is the tool for the job. - Unity Web Site

OK, thanks mooxe. There is a partial game list on the site.

Also, me thinks maybe CC3d will be a console game or a game you play on your phone or from the web. That would be a hoot. Laughing

There is going to be more and more of this kind of thing going forward, even web based games where the content does not have to be distributed via media (like a CD).

In addition, modding will be out of the question, especiallly for consoles or hand helds, as they have strict parameters and usually zero scaling.

Oddly enough, despite my comments regarding modding on the top of the page. I went to the Total War Center to check the community. And as we go along, CA is now supplying more modding resources to the public and even construction kits for the newer titles in the series, even for those that are purely web based.

#40: Re: Close Combat in 3D Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:34 am
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Anyway,

All this talk about CC 3d makes me want to post some screenies of Barbarian Invasion. I know this game is old now days, but I just cant get enough of it.

The other CA titles have much better graphics, but there is just something I can't quite put my finger on about RTW and BI.

Maybe its the fact that there are only 3 kinds of trees. Or maybe it just looks great without the grass effect.

Or maybe it is the fact that all the soldiers in a unit look the same. I can't figure it out.

I just know that I will not shop for another box until I cant run XP anymore (or its browser), then I might do something. Meanwhile, this game is about the best 3D wargame ever, and it runs on my box. AMAZING Exclamation

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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